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jinzleftbuttcheek Profile
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Four Toes

Registered: 05-2006
Location: Nineth Level of Hell
Posts: 7922
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Re: Why Mormons Why???


I just question if it would be fair, if the gay community had spent that much time and money, would it be appropraite for any church to cry foul?

Could you really do that SDL? I don't know if I could emotionally let go....

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Friendship is precious, not only in the shade, but in the sunshine of life. ~Thomas Jefferson
12/1/2008, 12:53 pm Link to this post Email this user   PM this user yahoo
 
Onyx2201 Profile
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Sawyer's Harem

Registered: 07-2006
Location: An alternate state of attitude
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Re: Why Mormons Why???


I have read a couple of interesting essays about this whole prop 8 thing. I think a lot ofChristina leaders are feeling guilty that the LDS are taking the heat on this. The new watch cry seems to be
"We are all Mormons now". Interesting eh?



---
Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death.
-Auntie Mame
12/1/2008, 1:45 pm Link to this post Email this user   PM this user
 
SoDoneLurking Profile
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Polar Bear Bait

Registered: 05-2006
Location: Seventh Heaven
Posts: 2866
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Re: Why Mormons Why???


quote

jinzleftbuttcheek wrote

Could you really do that SDL? I don't know if I could emotionally let go....



I told him I could do it if we did egg donation. I can bake someone else's baby...but not give up my own.

I just like the idea of telling my preacher that I'm carrying my gay cousin's baby.

emoticon

********
Okay, so it's a universal right to marry. But marriage has ALWAYS been defined as one man and one woman (unless you're Mormon...LOL). In California it's defined so in our Constitution. What the opponents of Prop 8 wanted to do is redefine marriage, and people can't wrap their heads around it.

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~SDL~

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our Light, not our Darkness, that most frightens us.
- Marianne Williamson
12/1/2008, 5:35 pm Link to this post Email this user   PM this user msn yahoo
 
Lady Emm Profile
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Hurley Bird

Registered: 06-2006
Posts: 4668
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Re: Why Mormons Why???


quote

Okay, so it's a universal right to marry. But marriage has ALWAYS been defined as one man and one woman (unless you're Mormon...LOL). In California it's defined so in our Constitution. What the opponents of Prop 8 wanted to do is redefine marriage, and people can't wrap their heads around it.



The reason so many people have difficulty wrapping their minds around it is that the definition is actually a LEGAL definition, but they hear it with a Religious ear.

Marriage is a legal contract- thus it should be able to be entered into by two people who can form a legal contract - gender doesn't enter into any other legal contract, so why should it enter into this one??

People hear the word marriage, but really they hear ' church wedding' which is religious- and thus offends their morals- at least the ones that they may be currently using this week.

sorry that was evil twin Delilah


Maybe if we had stayed with handfasting like the Celts with the option to re-up every year we might be having an easier time with this.

The real issue IS the medical one though- if you are not Legally the spouse you cannot have visitation or medical privileges with your partner- even if you are NOT the same gender, and THAT should have been in the ads also.
12/5/2008, 2:13 pm Link to this post PM this user
 
bloodsugarchecker Profile
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Beach Bum

Registered: 05-2006
Posts: 252
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Re: Why Mormons Why???


quote

Lady Emm wrote:

The real issue IS the medical one though- if you are not Legally the spouse you cannot have visitation or medical privileges with your partner- even if you are NOT the same gender, and THAT should have been in the ads also.



Can't they just get a medical durable power of attorney?

---
BSC
"IF the gospel that we preach does not 'bring good news to the poor,' well then, it is simply not the gospel of Jesus Christ - and it is about time that we said that." - Jim Wallis
12/7/2008, 5:09 pm Link to this post PM this user
 
Lady Emm Profile
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Hurley Bird

Registered: 06-2006
Posts: 4668
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Re: Why Mormons Why???


as far as I know they cannot get one here that works,
not to mention, that is not going to be real helpful if you end up in the ER and nobody knows where it is- Or has time to go take it to a judge.


I know I sure as hell am not planning on going to a judge to get to see my spouse- and I do not think that other people who are in loving caring relationships- that I know have lasted longer than a lot of "normal" marriages should have to either.
12/9/2008, 1:50 pm Link to this post PM this user
 
bloodsugarchecker Profile
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Beach Bum

Registered: 05-2006
Posts: 252
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Re: Why Mormons Why???


As far as I know you don't need a judge to get a power of attorney for healthcare. An attorney can draw one up and it's permanent until revoked. Furthermore I think the Durable POA for Healthcare grants rights that even spouses wouldn't have. What was that case a year or so ago where the husband wanted to pull the plug on his wife who was in a persistant vegetative state and the parents wouldn't let him? Can't remember her name. Don't know how that would work for ER visits though. I mean does a spouse have to pull out their marriage certificate??

I have taken family members to the ER many times and even shown up on my own after an ambulance ride. I've never been asked to show any proof of my relationship just to see the patient. I suppose though that after going through all the insurance info the staff had no reason to question.

The main thing I think a lot of gay couples are seeking is health insurance for their partners through their employers. And I can certainly see why they would want that. If only we had universal coverage...

A few other things that I think have been a problem for the gay community:
1. Rights of one member of the couple when "they" have adopted a child. Things may have changed but it used to be that only one member of a gay couple could legally adopt a child so if the couple split up the other "parent" had no rights in that child's life.
2. Only a spouse can file a wrongful death suit. If someone, through negligence, kills a member of a gay couple, the survivor has no legal right to sue while a spouse could.
3. Depending on a couple's financial situation there are some income tax advantages to being married. This however can be a two-edged sword as the dual income can usually puts people in a higher tax bracket.

Last edited by bloodsugarchecker, 12/9/2008, 3:29 pm


---
BSC
"IF the gospel that we preach does not 'bring good news to the poor,' well then, it is simply not the gospel of Jesus Christ - and it is about time that we said that." - Jim Wallis
12/9/2008, 3:14 pm Link to this post PM this user
 
Onyx2201 Profile
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Sawyer's Harem

Registered: 07-2006
Location: An alternate state of attitude
Posts: 4096
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Re: Why Mormons Why???


I've never had anyone question my relationship to a patient at any hospital I've gone to .

a medical POA should work, if I was a single person I could name anybody, altho most people would choose a family member, cousin

as a genealogist I know we are all related

---
Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death.
-Auntie Mame
12/10/2008, 9:33 pm Link to this post Email this user   PM this user
 
jinzleftbuttcheek Profile
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Four Toes

Registered: 05-2006
Location: Nineth Level of Hell
Posts: 7922
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Re: Why Mormons Why???


If they were in an ICU, then only family members would be able to visit. Of course you could lie, but I think they are saying they shouldn't have to.

---


Friendship is precious, not only in the shade, but in the sunshine of life. ~Thomas Jefferson
12/11/2008, 1:52 pm Link to this post Email this user   PM this user yahoo
 
bloodsugarchecker Profile
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Beach Bum

Registered: 05-2006
Posts: 252
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Re: Why Mormons Why???


That's a good point. Probably a POA wouldn't do much good in that case, and as Lady Emm pointed out even if it did a person would have to at least go home and retrieve it (and if one were travelling...) I also agree, a person shouldn't have to lie just to get to see their loved one. But I also agree with something Onyx said earlier about changing other laws to get around these things rather than changing the basic definition of marriage. Maybe if we could have wallet cards or a notation on a driver's license or insurance card or some such thing.

---
BSC
"IF the gospel that we preach does not 'bring good news to the poor,' well then, it is simply not the gospel of Jesus Christ - and it is about time that we said that." - Jim Wallis
12/11/2008, 3:10 pm Link to this post PM this user
 


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